From Google PM to Lean AI Startup: Jacob Bank’s Playbook for Building Modern Products
What happens when a former Google PM decides to unlearn everything and build an AI startup from scratch?
In this episode of Product Founder, Amir interviews Jacob Bank, founder of Relay.app and ex-PM for Gmail and Google Calendar. Jacob reveals why big company experience can be a liability when building a startup, how his team built a fast-growing AI agent platform with zero paid ads, and why product vibes often matter more than features.
If you’re building a SaaS product in 2025, especially in the AI tooling space, this is essential reading.
From Google to Ground Zero: Unlearning Scale to Build from Scratch
Jacob spent six years at Google, leading product for Gmail, Calendar, and productivity tools. But when he launched his startup, Relay, he quickly realized that experience at a tech giant can backfire.
“Being a PM at Google is the worst preparation for being a founder. You learn how to navigate scale, but nothing about starting from zero.”
In a startup, there’s no massive user base, no regulatory overhead, no sprawling cross-functional teams. It’s just you, your co-founders, and your product.
His advice? Skip the FAANG ladder climb if your end goal is entrepreneurship. Either build something anything, or embed yourself in an early-stage startup where you can learn by doing.
The Real Job-to-Be-Done: Cross-Product Workflows, Not Buttons
The insight behind Relay stemmed from a pattern Jacob saw across enterprise users: they didn’t care about feature polish, they cared about getting real work done.
“We were obsessing over Gmail labels. But customers weren’t trying to organize emails. They wanted to track tickets, update their CRM, and email customers all across tools.”
That led Jacob to a thesis:
- Work doesn’t live in one app.
- People need systems, not tools.
- AI can help automate decisions across products.
Relay was born to fill that void: a horizontal, AI-powered workflow tool designed to do your work for you not just make it prettier.
The Pivot Marathon: 2 Years, 4 Prototypes, Zero Customers
Relay wasn’t an overnight success. Jacob and team spent over two years experimenting with different product ideas:
- Standup meeting tools
- HR onboarding assistants
- Knowledge bases
- Performance review systems
Each tried to automate work across tools. None stuck. It wasn’t until they leaned into horizontal AI agents modular, build-your-own agents that they found traction.
“What we landed on was a system where users describe a job-to-be-done, and we help them build an agent that connects their tools and gets it done.”
It’s a product designed for generalist teams marketers, real estate agents, support reps, who can’t use Make.com or N8N, but want power and flexibility.
Competing in the AI Agent Space: Focus on Simplicity, Not Features
So how does Relay compete in a crowded AI agent market with players like Make, Zapier, N8N, and Gumloop?
Simple: they choose a user type and go all-in.
“If you’re a developer, go use N8N. If you’re non-technical and find Make or Zapier too confusing, use Relay.”
Relay isn’t trying to be everything for everyone. Instead, they dominate a specific persona:
- Non-technical operators
- Real estate and legal firms
- Marketers and support teams
By being the easiest and most intuitive option, they’ve carved out a niche without going feature-for-feature.
Organic Growth Playbook: No Ads, No Outbound, Just Content
Unlike most startups, Relay has grown to 1,000+ paying customers without:
- Paid ads
- Outbound SDRs
- SEO content mills
Instead, Jacob relies on:
- Founder-led content: webinars, YouTube, blog posts
- Customer stories turned into tutorials
- Real examples and use cases
- Direct user feedback loop
“All I do is meet 5 users a day, learn what they’re doing, and turn that into content. That’s our entire marketing strategy.”
This tight feedback loop doesn’t just drive awareness it powers product development. The team sees where users struggle, and ships fast iterations to improve.
Shipping Fast in a Shifting Ecosystem
The AI tool landscape moves fast, new models, protocols, and use cases emerge monthly. Jacob says the biggest challenge is keeping up.
But Relay has a system:
- Hear a new use case (e.g. video generation)
- Ship a V1 in 3 days
- Improve to V2 in 2 weeks
- Ship a great V3 in 2 months
“Our V3s are great. But we couldn’t reach them without going through V1 and V2.”
Unlike Google, where projects took 18 months, Relay decides in 5 minutes and ships in 3 days. The key? Staying small and nimble.
Building a Team That’s Small on Purpose
Relay’s current team is:
- 6 engineers
- 2 designers
- 1 PM
- Jacob doing everything else (marketing, support, HR, ops)
That’s it. And Jacob believes it’s more than enough.
I’ve never seen a bigger team build a simpler, more intuitive product. We can hit 100K customers with 15 people.”
Rather than bloating with headcount, Relay uses AI, automation, and ruthless focus to scale.
Feature Differentiation Is a Myth, Vibes Matter More
Why do people pick Relay, Linear, or Loops? It’s not about one magical feature.
“No one buys based on feature checklists. They buy on vibes. Vibes from the founder, the brand, the onboarding, the UI.”
This applies to:
And yes, even Loveable, the rising design startup, wins on vibe.
The New Way to Work: AI-Powered Teams, Not Hierarchies
Jacob ends with a bold prediction:
“In 5 years, there will be way more small, empowered teams using AI, not massive hierarchies.”
Forget the ladder. The future belongs to:
- Super ICs powered by AI
- 10-person startups replacing 100-person teams
- Founder-led marketing, product, and support
Your job isn’t to scale headcount. It’s to scale impact.
Recommended Reading & Tools
- Relay.App
- Linear – clean UX wins on vibes
- Loops – founder-led brand marketing
- Jacob’s LinkedIn
- Loveable – design-led vibe branding
Want more insights like this? Subscribe to the Product Founder podcast and get weekly interviews with product leaders, founders, and creators who are building legendary products.
Enjoyed this post? You might also like some of our other deep dives with top product thinkers:
1) The Secret to Dominating 7 Countries with One Product Strategy | Hugo Froes
2) What Does it Take to Beat Amazon in Their Own Game? | Ali Khalid Rana
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